In this episode
Professor Georgina Long AO, MAK and Professor Richard Scolyer AO.
Australians of the Year, Professors Richard Scolyer AO and Georgina Long AO are melanoma researchers who have developed a revolutionary treatment that has proven to be a cure for the disease. They share how being named Australian of the Year has provided a platform to share their ground-breaking research, as well as discussing the importance of being safe from the sun.
About Professors Richard Scolyer AO and Georgina Long AO
Professors Richard Scolyer AO and Georgina Long AO are co-founders of the Melanoma Institute Australia, working together to try to stop melanoma cancer impacting the lives of so many Australians.
They are responsible for saving the lives of thousands of people through their ground-breaking immunotherapy research as they work towards achieving a zero death toll from melanoma.
In 2023, Professor Scolyer was diagnosed with incurable Grade 4 brain cancer which led Professor Long to develop a series of world-first treatments based on melanoma breakthroughs. He became the world’s first brain cancer patient to have pre-surgery combination immunotherapy, an experimental treatment which saved his life.
Transcript
MAK
A warm welcome, I’m Marie-Anne Keefe, but please call me MAK.
When Professors Richard Scolyer and Georgina Long developed a revolutionary treatment that proved to be a cure for melanoma, they knew that they held in their hands the key to saving thousands of Australian lives.
What neither of them knew at that time was this same medical breakthrough would go on to hold the key to saving one of their lives.
Unbelievably, in a cruel twist of fate, last June Richard was diagnosed with stage 4 incurable brain cancer. So, Georgina had the idea to use their learnings from treating melanoma to help Richard by devising a world first experimental treatment for his type of brain cancer, making him the first person to have pre-surgery combination immunotherapy.
Their life-saving medical breakthrough combined with Richard's bravery as he faces the battle of his life saw Professor Richard Scolyer and Professor Georgina Long co-directors of the Melanoma Institute of Australia bestowed our country's highest citizenship honour.
Together they are the Australians of the Year 2024 and I'm very privileged to have you join me, thank you so much for being here.
Professor Georgina Long
Thanks for having us it's a real pleasure to be here.
MAK
The last year for both of you must be like a whirlwind and I'm really interested to hear from each of you through your own lenses what that's been like maybe Georgina you could start?
Professor Georgina Long
Well, thank you for the question.
It's been incredible and such an honour for both of us to be named as joint Australians of the Year, mainly actually for the work in melanoma, because the work in one cancer can impact many others.
Immunotherapy is used in melanoma usually the advanced stages, so this is when people have secondaries, and that work in melanoma has now spread to lung cancer, kidney cancer, bladder cancer.
And it's this work as well as our goal of zero deaths from melanoma in Australia, Australia's cancer, which is really important and we're passionate about.
So thank you so much for the wonderful introduction and Australia has a national problem with skin cancer and melanoma, and we're both very passionate about that. And we'd like to change that, especially if we're talking to high school kids.
MAK
I want to talk about the frightening statistics in just a moment.
Richard, this year for you, I can't even imagine the range of emotions and the rollercoaster ride that you've been on.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Well, like Georgina says, it's a great platform for us to use. We've dedicated our lives, our careers to try and change melanoma, indeed all cancer patients' outcomes. And we've worked in this field for 25 years. So to win this award, it's given us an amazing platform to really push the field of melanoma as we try and get our goal at Melanoma Institute Australia of zero deaths from melanoma.
And we talked about things at the back end of the disease, but ultimately, prevention is better than cure.
So getting to zero deaths from melanoma, if we can stop it from happening, get this message through particularly to young Australians to stop the glamorization of tanning, make people think about sun protection when they go outside, when they play sport and even this glamorization of tanning which is often we joked about as the Kim Kardashian effect, we've got to change that so people don't tan and traumatize their skin cells because that's what ultraviolet radiation from the sun does and ultimately what causes cancer. So that's one important point and I guess the other important point that we're really trying to push through is to think about early diagnosis of melanoma.
So the message we've got for all Australians is know the skin you're in. If you see something that's new or changing go and see your doctor to get it checked out because if you get melanoma early 95% of people are cured.
MAK
The statistics are actually terrifying. I was shocked to hear you talk about them earlier today. Can you share those with us?
Professor Georgina Long
So yeah, someone is diagnosed in Australia every 30 minutes with melanoma and someone dies from melanoma every 6 hours. It used to be every 5 hours, it's now every 6 hours. But as Richard said, working on the front end is going to be our best bet at trying to achieve zero deaths from melanoma. And for all those budding epidemiologists out there listening, it's about what we call primary prevention, so sun safety, the slip slop slap seek slide message. The sports, the glamorization of tanning and then secondary prevention which is early diagnosis getting the cancer early and getting it treated early because 95% is cured with surgery early so that's where we'll make a real difference, and for every dollar spent in prevention we get $4 back across this nation over the next couple of decades.
In Western Australia, it's even better. For every dollar that has already been spent in prevention messages by Cancer Council Western Australia, they're getting $8.70 back into the Western Australia coffers, so to speak.
MAK
When you say back, do you mean through the savings in treatment?
Professor Georgina Long
No savings in not getting the disease or getting it early. Because if things, first of all, if you get melanoma, you have to get it cut out. It's a lot of detailed treatment pathways that is costly to the person, their time.
It's also costly to the health system. Surgery, healing, scans, et cetera, et cetera.
So by preventing it, you save the taxpayers money in the future because it's the sun exposure you had now that gives you cancer in the next couple of decades.
So $1 in prevention, $8.70 back in Western Australia.
MAK
So what is, can you calculate the cost to the country every year of skin cancer? What is that figure?
Professor Georgina Long and Professor Richard Scolyer
$2.8 billion.
MAK
A year?
Professor Richard Scolyer
Yes.
Professor Georgina Long
Jinx.
$2.8 billion a year for skin cancer.
Professor Richard Scolyer
So we can save a lot of money, make people's lives a lot better if we can get this SunSmart behaviour message through.
We love Australia, we love enjoying the outdoors, having fun. Just be smart about how you do it to try and prevent yourself from getting cancer.
Playing sport, Georgina raised up. We love playing sport, but just be smart about it. Wear uniforms that protect your skin. Trainings, don't make them in the middle of the day. We know that for professional swimmers, they've got a 9 times higher incidence of melanoma than people at the same age as them. So we've got to cover pools up, but these are the sorts of things we need to do.
Still love this country, still enjoy it, be smart about how you do it to protect your body from that damage that ultraviolet irradiation causes to skin cells.
MAK
Can I tell you a horrifying story? This is going to horrify you. It horrifies me now I think about it.
When I grew up, there really wasn't any such thing as being sun safe. In fact, I don't even remember ever using sunscreen. It wasn't a thing. I might be showing my age here.
And what was promoted, though, was spending all day out in the sun. We were one of the lucky people that had a backyard pool so we were very ritzy and literally we would be in that pool from the time the sun went up to the time the sun went down and I remember many summers as a child where I would get out of that pool and I would literally have blisters the size of dinner plates on the back on my back. And the treatment back then to help these blisters was to put yourself in a bath or my mother would of methylated spirits.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Oh wow.
MAK
It was common practice to dry the blisters out because we're Aussies, you know, that's the way we, a bit of sun damage. What does it mean?
Professor Georgina Long
Did that hurt?
MAK
Oh, it stung. But this is almost the Australian psychology. There's a psychological link here with being bronzed and tanned and seemingly beautiful being the Australian way.
How do you tackle that psychology? How do you get underneath those, I guess, those myths about what it means to be Australian and outdoorsy and how they are perpetuated through social media for our young people?
Professor Georgina Long
Education, education, education and use every means of education that you can and the very tool that creates this ideal of beauty, use that tool to create a different ideal of beauty.
So at the moment, you're right, it's social media is the way people communicate. It's very powerful. Peer group pressure, our adolescents feel that peer group pressure. Can we somehow change that same peer group pressure for good?
And we do have one example with TikTok from a couple of years ago, but we've got to work on that and continual message, not just over one summer. It's got to be continual, continual. We did it with smoking. We can do it with tanning.
MAK
Who's most at risk?
Professor Richard Scolyer
Well, every Australian's at risk, but it's people who've got pale skin, like Georgina and I, means that your skin is not protected from the ultraviolet irradiation as much as people with darker skin.
So we're definitely at higher risk of getting it.
Professor Georgina Long
But everybody can get it, everybody, whether you've got fair or dark. It's just the risk is lower if you're a little darker compared with someone who's fairer. But the ageing message might help.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Yeah so the SunSmart message, you know, we know at primary school ‘no hat, no play’, and kids follow it along. They listen to their parents. But then when kids get to high school and young adults, they want to look cool amongst their mates. So we've got to change that culture about it.
And the other point Georgina's brought up is, you know, sun safety, it's not just for young people. In fact, even when you've retired you still prevent yourself from getting skin cancer right up to old age. So we've got to get the message through to all Australians about sun safety.
You brought up that thing, Georgina, about how we got one message through with social media. And, you know, we're not experts in communication strategies, but we know social media is a big one. And we had to do a talk at the National Press Club and brought up something that was on TikTok called sunburnt tan lines and it had millions and millions, I think it might have been 9 million posts or 900 million posts or something.
Professor Georgina Long
And these are just people, remember TikTok you're creating the content, the users create the content.
Taking photos of sunburns where they had white skin and you know red skin, post it constantly. So it was called sunburnt tan lines but keep going yeah.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Anyway so we brought this up and said we've got to do something about the glamorisation of tanning. And then unbeknownst to us, the next week TikTok reached out to us at Melanoma Institute Australia and said...
MAK
TikTok came to you.
Professor Georgina Long and Professor Richard Scolyer
Yes.
Professor Georgina Long
TikTok Australia.
MAK
TikTok never comes to you.
Professor Georgina Long
No.
MAK
But they did in this case.
Professor Richard Scolyer
They wanted to make a difference. They listened to what we said and they could see the impact that they were having and they worked with us and they developed a program called Tanning That's Cooked that came out if you searched for sun, sunburn, tanning, beach, summer, that would come up.
Professor Georgina Long
But it only lasted for the summer. And how effective it is, back to our scientific roots, you've got to measure how effective things are. So we do know that continual messaging is important and then the way we would see that is see the incidence of skin cancer drop. That's ultimately what we want to achieve.
We've dropped the death rate, but we've got to drop the incidence rate, and that's not dropped yet.
MAK
So this year, this platform, you're on one key mission here, really. This is the mission.
What is the one most important part of that? Is it prevention?
Professor Georgina Long and Professor Richard Scolyer
Absolutely.
MAK
And if you could give one message to people about prevention, what is that seminal message?
Professor Georgina Long
Absolute sun safety because that is where we're going to get our greatest impact in terms of zero deaths from melanoma and skin cancer. That is our message, be sun safe, enjoy this beautiful Australia. What a country, we're so proud of it, but be sun safe.
MAK
And we've got lots of young people that will be listening to this podcast. I know that you've got a special message for all the young people in terms of the way that, you know, they are led to believe that the only way to be beautiful and to be sort of cool on social media is to be bronzed and tanned and, you know, looking like the Kardashians.
We had a discussion earlier on about fake tans and all of that, but what you're saying actually is that the minute you have a tan, you have damaged irrevocably your skin.
Could you just talk a little bit about that science and about your message for our young people?
Professor Richard Scolyer
So when you get a tan it's caused by skin cells being in trauma how they respond is to put out more pigment, so what we call melanin pigment, and that that reduces the amount of ultraviolet irradiation that's able to penetrate through your skin, so that's why it's reacting like that. So it's trying to help you but the problem is the ultraviolet irradiation damages the DNA, which is present in every cell and ultimately that will lead to cancer, so that's why it's a bad thing, that's why we need to do something about it because we want to reduce the incidence of melanoma and other skin cancers that nearly all of which are caused by ultraviolet irradiation from the sun.
Professor Georgina Long
And so in a phrase let's stop glamorization of tanning. When you use fake tan you're glamorizing tanning you're saying ‘this is a beautiful look’ and then other people will actually go and get a tan, so let's stop glamorization of tanning, really important and if any bright sparks out there have ways of doing that and want to get on social media to do that or have influence, go for it.
We've really got to stop glamorization of tanning or own your tone is another one. Own your tone.
And as well, know the skin you're in, love the skin you're in.
MAK
Well, also there's own your tan, because when you talk about a tan being the traumatisation of skin cells, it does not sound sexy at all.
I can tell you right now, that's a complete put off for me.
And I guess if you're going to go and tan, you need to own the fact that you're actually damaging your body.
Professor Georgina Long
Exactly.
MAK
And if people have ideas, if young people have any ideas as to how to assist you with this, I guess you'd like to hear from them, would you?
Professor Richard Scolyer
Absolutely.
Professor Georgina Long
Absolutely.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Young people often come up with great ideas and to ultimately get the message out, we're not experts in communication, how to get a story or an advertisement out to the community. We're experts in melanoma as doctors.
We want to work with experts in other fields to produce messages that we can get out there and really make a difference for all Australians.
Professor Georgina Long
And the best way to impact your peers is be a peer, impacting them. So actually young people impacting each other is going to be much more powerful than us.
And the other message as well, as a side thing, is the UV exposure ages people. So in this constant focus on beauty, one thing that you're also doing is you're going to have much more beautiful skin when you're older, if you actually look after it and stay out of the sun, get out there, keep fit, get outdoors, just do it sun safe. It's not that difficult, it's just a mindset.
MAK
I ask this question at the end of every podcast and you get one answer each.
The question is, if I could grant you one wish, just one, what would that be? Georgina?
Professor Georgina Long
Optimism, thinking big, thinking big about making a difference for all Australians, the truth and looking how you can help those around you, whatever that be.
For us, we're focused on melanoma. But for all of us within this fantastic Australian community, let's make Australia a better place, no matter what you're working on.
Professor Richard Scolyer
And I love Georgina's comments, which I totally agree with. And for me, one thing that's been really important, and I think it's really contributed to our success, is teamwork.
When you work with people who've got complementary skill sets, you like the people, you get on with them and you work together, you go over the edge of what's required in a normal job and ultimately that's what makes a big difference.
And I guess I'm not allowed to add a second thing, but the other thing is...
MAK
Yes, you can. I'll give you one more.
Professor Richard Scolyer
When you're looking down the barrel at maybe the end of your life is nearer than you expected, make the most of every day. You don't know what's around the corner, enjoy your life and have fun.
MAK
It's been my privilege to be with you. I thank you and our country thanks you for everything that you're doing. You're inspiring, it’s been a pleasure, thank you for joining me today.
Professor Georgina Long
Thank you, MAK.
Professor Richard Scolyer
Thank you.
MAK
This podcast was recorded on Whadjuk Noongar land. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and pay respects to their elders past, present and future.
Notes:
Read about Professors Scolyer and Long's Australian of the Year win here.
Access more information on MIA’s Sun Safe Student Ambassador Program here.
You can read about the Professors' visit to Bob Hawke College here.