In this episode
Jelena Dokic with MAK.
In Jelena Dokic's own words, "the least interesting thing about me is tennis". The former tennis protegy was forced to deal with more as a young person than any one person should endure during a lifetime. And now she has found her voice through words.
About Jelena Dokic
Jelena Dokic is a champion tennis player, commentator, author, and passionate advocate for bringing awareness to domestic violence.
She reached the quarter-final at Wimbledon when she was just 16, going one better at 17, making a semi-final. By the time she turned 18, she was one of the top 10 players in the world and finished fourth at the Sydney Olympic Games.
Since retiring early due to injury, she has published 2 books, ‘Unbreakable’ and ‘Fearless’, which detail a history of domestic violence and how her life has changed because of it.
Jelena says she’s not a victim, nor a survivor, but a thriver.
She’s passionate about using her experiences to help others and spread messages of support and change.
Transcript
MAK
A warm welcome. I'm Marie-Anne Keefe, but please call me MAK.
Please be aware the following conversation includes discussion of domestic violence, mental health and suicide.
I'm going to use my next guest's own words to introduce her.
What is the most common comment I see when it comes to my body, my size and my weight? It's ‘what happened to her? I can barely recognise her’.
My reply? ‘Really? What happened? You can't recognise me? Well, let me tell you what happened. I survived being a refugee twice. I was bullied. I lived in a domestic violence-filled home for 15 years and I was beaten unconscious. I was abused physically and emotionally and got beaten for the first time when I was 6 years old’. I had to escape home. I battled anxiety, depression, PTSD, and trauma, and I almost committed suicide. I still managed to do pretty well. I managed to be in the top 5 in the world as a tennis player and a Grand Slam finalist. I'm a best-selling author, commentator, and speaker. But most importantly, I survived’.
These powerful words are from my very special guest today, Jelena Dokic.
Welcome.
Jelena Dokic
Thank you, MAK. Thank you so much.
MAK
What's it like hearing those words played back at you?
Jelena Dokic
I don't say it with quite that certainty and yeah in a positive way. But, yeah, I'm proud of those words. I mean every single one of them and I stand behind it, and that was from an Instagram post and coming out and talking publicly about body shaming and trolling. But also, yeah, it's a part of my book, well my new book, ‘Fearless’ and I put that in there on purpose because those are some of the really, really powerful words and sentences and paragraphs that, yeah, I really stand behind and that are at the core of who I am and who I want to be, which is kind and something that I want to fight for and something that a lot of people go through a lot of things and I don't think we need the extra unnecessary shame and judgment and being mean and not being kind.
So I feel really strongly about that and yeah it's actually really powerful to hear that because I know that I would sit down and write that and every single word that I write in, you know on my social media and paragraphs like that that are in my book, are all my words and I'm really proud of that and yeah something that I think is really important and will stay, and can make a difference and not just to me but to others.
MAK
So people would assume your superpower is tennis. However, I want to suggest to you that you have a number of superpowers and one of your superpowers clearly evidenced in ‘Fearless’, evidenced in ‘Unbreakable’, one of your superpowers are words.
Jelena Dokic
I think words are unbelievably powerful. I never thought of it and knew that, to be honest, certainly not for decades and not really until I started to use words, both on paper in writing books, but also to speak up and to find my voice.
So absolutely, I'm really proud of what I've done as an athlete, as a tennis player, especially under the circumstances and a lot of the adversity that I went through, not just in life being a refugee and being bullied and facing racism, but a lot of poverty as well, but also a lot of the physical and emotional abuse I've faced at home and a lot of the mental health issues I ended up having because of that and almost taking my own life at just the age of 22.
But I am, yeah I'm proud of being able to have, you know, a talent that I did work really hard for and managed to get very you know close to the very top, I was in the top 5 in the world, so I'm very proud of that and to be honest with you though I'm even more proud to have been able to reinvent myself because I got injured at the age of 29 only, that's very early to retire especially for a tennis player, and also due to my mental health and I had nothing left in the tank physically mentally.
And then the real battle I kind of felt like also began in reinventing myself I was only 29, what was next? I felt like tennis was the only thing I ever knew and that was my identity, and then having to go out there and work on things and try things and see what I want to do, what I'm even capable of, what I'm good at and yeah I went and did a lot of things I'm very proud of the hard work that went into it, but also not being afraid to push myself and to push the envelope and go, ‘I want to try commentating, I want to try TV, I want to try and be a speaker, I want to continue being an author and to write more books’.
So, yeah, I'm very proud of that, but I would still say the least, kind of might sound strange, but the least interesting thing about me I would say, is tennis. I don't know.
MAK
I agree.
Jelena Dokic
To be honest with you, everyone knows me as that and that's great, but I kind of got the real work and the real difference that I make is now, and that's what I want my legacy to be, and we started this question with words, and that's what it is.
Now I feel like my words, I found power in them. I found my voice. I found my happiness. I found my life. I found strength and courage and vulnerability, which has put a smile on my face, which I didn't have for 3 decades.
And yeah, I think that the 13-year-old girl, the 13-year-old myself would be very proud of what I've done and where I am today. And the way that I got to that are words, and words are so powerful, whether we write them or speak them and tell them, and that's why I feel yeah so strongly about my writing and my speaking and even through commentary, that is sport but I still even through that, people that actually know me really really well will know I put a lot of thought into my words when I commentate and interview and do TV because I try to always approach it from a really empathetic and compassionate and kind way.
So for me even in something like that I try to use really powerful words but with kindness.
MAK
I see tennis, here's an analogy for you, I see tennis as being your vehicle. And so while you are a champion tennis player, it's actually been the vehicle that you've driven. You've driven it onto this national, international platform.
And now that vehicle is giving you the platform to be able to do the rest of the work that you have to do, because you're here for another purpose.
Jelena Dokic
Absolutely and look, I'm firstly known as someone who played tennis, who was a tennis player and who was not too bad at it.
So yeah, absolutely.
I've been in the spotlight since I was 12, 13, and definitely have a platform and a profile because of that, no doubt about that.
But my work really continues from there and everything that I do today, I would not be here if I didn't continue the work that I did in the last 10 years and completely kind of even do fields that have nothing to do with tennis. But yeah, tennis was a vehicle, and I'm very actually grateful because tennis is such a big passion and love of mine. I have so much passion and love for the game and I always have and I always will, and even the commentary on the TV that I do I think a lot of people can probably sense that I've heard people tell me that a few times and I love that because I really approach it with so much passion.
I love it, I love to call it, I love to be around it and look despite of the certain things that I've been through in life tennis has given me an opportunity, tennis has given me a life, tennis has given me an amazing opportunity to do things that otherwise wouldn't be possible. So yeah, I'm very grateful for that and I'm very grateful that I've been able to have a talent that I worked then hard for to be able to fulfil my potential and some of those goals and those dreams.
MAK
Unbeknownst to you, you've been sitting on my bedside table for the last couple of weeks, because I really love to read before I go to sleep. And I had ‘Unbreakable’ and ‘Fearless’ stacked up next to me and I started ‘Unbreakable’, and it used to take my breath away.
I'd read chapters before I went to bed and at one point I just had to put it down and I thought ‘I'm going to move on to Fearless’ and I've moved on to Fearless, and I have to say I've got the book in front of me, people can't see it but it's got yellow sticky notes all the way through it, and Jelena's never quite seen as many yellow sticky notes in her book as the number that are here but almost on every page for me was a point of power, was a point of meaning.
I mean, this really is a masterpiece in terms of the connections that you're able to make with people through the words in ‘Fearless’. I mean, the byline on it is ‘finding the power to thrive’.
That is your purpose.
Jelena Dokic
I'm very proud of ‘Fearless’.
‘Unbreakable’ is a hard read because I really do detail everything I went through and all of the abuse that I go really into detail from the beatings with the leather belt to being knocked out cold and unconscious, but I really felt like ‘look I need to tell that story, I need to tell it in order to be able to help someone and in order to find my voice’. I wouldn't have been able to do it any other way if I didn't tell it and tell it in full, and while it is certain parts are a hard read and a confronting read, yeah it has to be told and I'm someone that really believes in order for us to be able to change something or set a good example or be able to lead.
We have to tell those hard stories yes, with empathy and compassion, but we need to be able to tell them, not shy away from them and not tiptoe around them because victims and survivors if they see and feel that that's what we're doing and we're running away from it, they feel even worse and like they're not seen and heard and accepted and they feel even more alone and I know because I've experienced that, I know a lot of other people that have.
So it was important to tell that but it was also so important for me personally, I would not have been able to get to a place where I am today, the journey of healing and being able to help others if I didn't write ‘Unbreakable’ in full, but I kind of really am proud of ‘Fearless’ and I never thought I would say that because ‘Unbreakable’, to be honest with you, took a lot of guts to put all that out there because of the shame stigma labels in sport and society even though we're a lot better today. Even 6 years ago when ‘Unbreakable’ came out there was a lot of shame and stigma when you talk about domestic violence and child abuse and mental health and anything that kind of isn't, let's say, you know, perfect, which by the way, what is perfect? But, yeah, I've experienced that in sport and we experience it in society all the time.
And there were these unrealistic expectations and I really found that vulnerability and then shattering that myth of perfection was so important. And I am so proud of ‘Fearless’ and I didn't even think that I would ever say this, but just as if not more proud than ‘Unbreakable’, because ‘Fearless’ you can, I mean hopefully the readers can feel that it really is the healing journey. And as a reader, I call it ‘Fearless’, not that I don't have fear, it's how I deal with it, which is fearlessly and bravely and not holding back and standing up for myself and standing in my voice and my power and the truth, but also the subheading ‘finding the power to thrive’ was very important because I really felt like I was a victim and a survivor after ‘Unbreakable’ but then I was like ‘I want to do more, I actually have the power to actually here now do more not just for myself but for others’. So I want to thrive, I want to turn the negative into positive, the bad into good, the pain into something that would heal, yeah power, heal myself and others. And that's why I'm even more proud of ‘Fearless’ where I still touch on very important issues like the power of our voice, like sharing our stories and having a safe space and environment and even a public space and society to do it in and sports and schools and everywhere, I talk about online abuse and trolling and body shaming which I've experienced in the last kind of few years and why it was important to call that out again through the power of words and vulnerability and sharing our stories.
But then really the second part of the book is a lot more, kind of I like to call it, from a bit more of a healing and mindful perspective and I talk about the power of gratitude and kindness and finding joy and happiness and positive mindset, and having that belief and hope and really not being defined and defeated by what happened to you, but also having that resilience to go, okay, I'm going to keep my grace, dignity, integrity, character when things and circumstances really change for the worse and I'm not going to just get over those obstacles but I'm going to move forward and get even better from them.
So that's what I really want ‘Fearless’ to be and yeah some people go ‘it's such a powerful read but at the same time easy to read’ and I've on purpose done where we've got a lot of quotes, we've got a lot of mantras, we've got a lot of takeaways after chapters, and that was on purpose for people to be able to go ‘oh these are great takeaways, they're all in one place, there are some great quotes’.
So yeah, we put a lot of kind of, I would almost say like understated effort in there where on purpose I wanted to have also some of those powerful Instagram posts and that's not just because ‘oh Instagram and social media’, it's because I use my social media for creating a really supportive community for others. So that's why that's really, really important to me and a part of this book.
MAK
If we can be open about our pain and experiences, maybe we have a chance to create a world with less pain, more love, support and understanding, ultimately a better world/
Jelena Dokic
Yeah exactly and that's yeah that's what I kind of want to stand for. I want to stand for some of those amazing core values like kindness and not being bitter, resentful, hateful, that was very important to me going into ‘Unbreakable’ and with my story I never wanted to ever hate or resent anyone, I don't even hate or resent my father but at the same time it's about setting those boundaries and taking the toxic and negative relationships out of your life. But I think it's really important to not be a bitter person and to still have that kindness and this is the thing, I sleep well at night because even to some of those, let's say you know bad people or experiences, I know I've been good to them and kind, and I've always done it from the goodness of my heart.
So how can I, you know even if hurt was done to me and pain was done to me, you know, I can't be resentful or bitter because I'm proud of myself. I go to bed sleeping very good every night because I've done the right thing.
And that's what I want to come through, that you can keep that goodness in your heart and that kindness, even if you experience pain, and we can actually then use it to help others. And I think that's such a big and important lesson because so many of us in our lives, we do get hurt and we do go through losses.
Life is not sunshine and rainbows.
But I think if you can keep that grace, dignity, kindness and goodness about you, you can also not just live happily and be this positive person, but you can pass that on to others and help others.
MAK
You mentioned schools, which is obviously everything that we're about, and there'll be lots of teachers listening to this podcast. You've got a beautiful story to tell about a teacher and a message that was left for you by that teacher that has stayed with you forever. Can you share with us?
Jelena Dokic
Yeah I had some very very tough experiences and a lot of times where I didn't have didn't really have anyone that believed in me and didn't really have anyone or feel like I was accepted or belonged even in my own home and my own family.
So for me having a person here and there that believed in me was great and it saved my life but also when I didn't have it, it almost took my own life.
So for me yeah it stayed with me with, I always loved my teachers by the way. I've I loved school and getting an education was so important always and I loved school, but I loved the experience of it because when I was leaving and we were refugees the second time around from Serbia to Australia, one of my teachers on the last group photo at the back wrote a really nice message to me that no matter where I go and what I do she knows that I'll be amazing. And yeah that stayed with me forever but I've had yeah, I haven't had a lot, but I've had one or two people that believed in me and I'm here because of them and that's so important, that's the message I want to pass on for us to try and create a world and a society where if you help that one person and you believe in them and you're there for them, there's nothing more powerful in the way that you show love and kindness and support than making someone feel like they belong and like they're heard and like they're accepted.
And for me, that's extremely powerful. So I know both sides of the medal when I had it and when I didn't have it, and it was life-changing.
So I really try to pass that message on through everything that I do, including my talks, and yeah that's why I still kind of feel like there's another book in me and even more that that I can do with my story. And I feel like this is only just the beginning. And that's what I want my legacy to be, I feel like that's my calling and I was supposed to be doing what I'm doing today.
MAK
What would your advice be to our teachers in terms of the most important thing that they could do to bring about this sense of belonging, which you talk about as being so key, just being able to belong, having one person believe in you and knowing that you belong. What is core to that?
Jelena Dokic
I think our teachers and just in general, the whole educational sector is amazing. I have so much respect for them. It's such a tough job and they do not, I feel like, get enough recognition because, yeah, I know how hard that is and teachers left a lasting effect on me.
But I think the biggest thing is, I know that they have to deal with a lot of different kids and a lot of different personalities and a lot of different children, and it's not just one or two, it's you know a lot. But I think the biggest thing would be to be able to listen and be there for them and to make them feel like they are supported and like they do belong and like they are accepted, because you don't know ever maybe what's going on at home or if they are maybe even being bullied at school or somewhere else if something is going on.
And even if it's not, when I've, again, had that and I've had a coach as well that made me feel that way, but also a coach that didn't make me feel that way. So, for me yeah, if you feel like you're, like you belong somewhere, even in that person's life and like they're going to be there for you and listen to you, and like you can open up to them, that is again, it can change lives. And I know that the teachers do that and that they are there for the students but yeah, I think it goes even past just the teaching and just even a pat on the back. Yeah, it's really, really important to feel like you really belong somewhere and not like you're, yeah, like you don't have a place in the world. That's the worst kind of place to feel.
So yeah, that would be, I think, my one thing.
MAK
Because there's family and then there's earth family and they're the family that you find on this earth and you know more than anyone what I mean about earth family.
Jelena Dokic
Yes, and I wasn't, I didn't feel like I belonged in my family and didn't have that support and I would even say love.
So, yes, for me it was important when I had that person and like I'll say again, I've had times when I haven't had that and I've had times when I have. And you need just that one person to believe in you and that one person to make you feel like they are your family and I feel like we can always be that for at least one person in the world. I really do.
All it takes is a message, is a phone call, is a hug and just to make them feel like they are loved, like they're supported. Yeah, there's nothing more powerful.
I kind of feel like that is the most powerful way to show someone love, love and kindness, is to make them feel like they belong, like you accept them, like you hear them, like you'll be there no matter what.
MAK
Now, I learned a lot through ‘Fearless’, many things, including this new concept for me about toxic positivity. Who knew that being positive could be toxic?
Jelena Dokic
Well, here's the thing. It's a fine line, right?
So the line is kind of, actually a little bit blurry I would say, because see for example my story I do want it to be a positive one, I want this to be okay I have to tell my story in order to be able to change something, in order to be able to normalize the conversation around issues like child abuse, domestic violence and mental health.
We can't shy away from telling those stories and I always feel like the best leaders and change makers in the world have the willingness and the courage to do it, but do it with compassion and empathy and not shy away from that, but also then how do we make a difference and how do we change things and actually create a difference and create change? And yeah what we do from there but you know I do want to, I talk about positivity, I talk about positive mindset and I talk about not being defined and defeated by your past but we have to be careful that we don't, it's not just I ‘every day is great, just stay positive, just stay positive’.
Look I say that to myself even when I don't have a great day but we have to be careful because I think for a long time, there was this message in society, and then the internet came, and then the social media came. And there was a lot out there where it was perfect, perfect, perfect pictures, perfect this. I have nothing against that but I think we have to be careful because life is not sunshine and rainbows, and the circle of life, the way that it is, we will experience loss. We will experience sadness. We will experience hardship and adversity. And unfortunately, now that more and more people are speaking up, including public figures but just in general, we see that there is a lot of stories out there. And I think it's important to show that, that kind of toxic positivity that it's just, ‘no matter what happens just stay positive’, or, ‘oh, just get over it’.
I don't think it's, you know, there's a fine line there of how you are positive, you know, I still think we go, ‘okay, we can get through adversity’. You can be changed at the core. You are going to have scars, but they can change you for the better. You can actually get strong.
It is about resilience and how you react to it and that in those times, you keep your values and your integrity and your character, and to get over those setbacks and to know that failing and falling and making mistakes is okay, but you can grow from them. That's positivity, but not, ‘we don't make mistakes. We don't fall. We don't fail. Everything's perfect. Every day is great’.
And I think we forgot for a while as well that, let's say, social media and Instagram, you see that post. That's just one second snap of someone's day it's not 24 hours of what happened, so I think that kind of took over and go ‘oh that's great’ but it's not.
So I think in general I am a big believer in having hope and belief and believing in that light at the end of the tunnel, but yeah I think that we need to be careful to just go ‘get over it’ or ‘everything be great’ or it's, we have to go okay how do people deal with trauma? How do people deal with setbacks? How do you develop some of that resilience? That it's okay to have a bad day, look I post positive stuff and but you know I don't always maybe have it together. You know some days I feel like I'm amazing and the biggest fighter, some days you feel like ‘oh if I just get out of bed and brush my teeth that's great’ and you know what it is great.
So most days you're a little bit of both but I think it's important to kind of go, ‘but I'm here, I'm standing up, I'm fighting’ that's what positivity is. But toxic positivity of ‘everything's always great’ is actually not realistic because it's some of that kind of perfection, which I don't believe in.
I think we need to shatter that myth of perfection because perfection doesn't actually exist and that label, it's a very dangerous one where we are trying to actually achieve something and set a very dangerous standard that doesn't actually exist.
MAK
I like to think that I'm perfect in my imperfection. That's the way I like to put it.
Jelena Dokic
Exactly. That's what I mean. But like I say this in my presentations all the time, is what is a perfect body? What is a perfect tennis player? What is a perfect athlete? What is a perfect face, what is a perfect life? What is a perfect career? Right?
Doesn't exist because they're all different, but they are all great, right? They're imperfectly perfect. So what might be amazing for you, let's say, might be a completely different career for me. So that's what we kind of need to talk about, that it's not just one and one only.
And that's where also then vulnerability comes in, the power of being vulnerable. And I really believe in this because I felt it in sport, I felt it in society, that vulnerability was always looked at and kind of treated, you're weak straight away. And vulnerability takes so much courage and guts and some of the most courageous and strong people I know have had this amazing ability to be vulnerable.
And I felt, again, I felt it through my own story by being vulnerable, I found so much strength, I found power, I found my voice, I found courage, I found my self-worth and standing up for myself and, yeah, I've also found that I can actually, through vulnerability, help others. So, yeah, those are some of the things where it is kind of, again, that toxic positivity of everything is great, but then getting to the other side and going, well look, you can have a positive mindset, but this is what it's about.
MAK
Now, I bet you've been asked to go back to the 15-year-old Jelena and give some words of advice to her. What would you say to that girl? Have you been asked that question?
Jelena Dokic
Yes, I have, and I think that again under the circumstances and everything that I've had to go through and couldn't have a voice and went through already a lot when I was young, couldn't do anything about it, I am still very proud of the way that I was able to handle things as they came, but I would, yeah it took me a good let's say 10 to 15 years to find power in my voice and to feel like I have to be silent.
That's what I always felt like. I had to be silent because my father always used to tell me that and that if I spoke up, he would literally kill me. And I believe that because you hear it from the age of 6 and I was afraid of that and I had so much fear. But I would just, yeah I would, if there's one thing I would say, never allow anyone to dictate how you feel about yourself, your self-worth. Never allow anyone to tell you what you're capable of what you're not capable of to never give up on those goals and your dreams and yeah just to, I would say just to also not take comments from people that are going directly to you or you hear from someone. Don't take it in a very hard and personal way because it's got nothing to do about you it says everything about other people so I would just go, just laugh at that and that noise, that outside noise.
MAK
Well, here's the next part.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah.
MAK
Let's fast forward to 2050, 24 years time. Sorry, 26, my maths isn't great there, is it? Let's say 26 years time.
So by then, you're a much older woman. We both are much older women.
Looking back at this point in time, what would Jelena in 2050 say to this woman here in 2024? What is her advice going to be to you?
Jelena Dokic
Well, the way that I am really really proud of myself, whether looking back, my 13-year-old self, for example, would be proud of the way I've come through things, but more importantly to use it for something good in the world.
I hope that in 26 years time, I can go, yep I got up every day, I believed in myself, continued to believe in myself, and I continued to fight not just for myself but for others. And yeah that I did it with passion and that I did it with humour and positivity and that I continue to use my voice, that I just continue to try and make a difference in people's lives or someone's life out there and that I'm proud of what I'm leaving behind and the legacy that I'm leaving behind, and like you said those words and the quotes that I'm leaving behind I hope that that stays, and that they are powerful enough for someone to read and go ‘yeah, that really changed my life or changed something for me’.
MAK
Now, fun facts. I want to know something that I don't know about you. I've done quite a bit of research.
I have learned some new things about you today. Number one, that you like pottery. Number two, that you want to try pickleball, which is a really new thing in Australia. Like I only know about that I've seen it on some American television shows. I don't even really know quite was, it looks quite bizarre to be honest.
Jelena Dokic
Well pickleball and paddle tennis are new yeah they're big in America, yeah it's a different version of between tennis and squash and yeah smaller rackets smaller courts and things like that.
So yeah I'm up for trying those new things but what don't you know.
MAK
What don't I know about you? What does nobody know about you and it's not a – I think we know all your deep, dark secrets, really. I just want something else, something.
Jelena Dokic
I dance in my house.
MAK
What kind?
Jelena Dokic
I'm a crap dancer.
MAK
Don't say that.
Jelena Dokic
Can I say that word?
MAK
Yeah.
Jelena Dokic
No, no. I own it because I have it on, I show it on social media and what you see is what you get. So the way you see me dance on social media, that's how I dance. It's just awkward but that's okay.
That's the part of vulnerability that I go, you know, love yourself and who you are.
MAK
Just quietly. I've just had a genius idea.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah.
MAK
What about Dancing with the Stars?
Jelena Dokic
Yeah, I don't know.
MAK
I just have had the world's best idea. You love dancing. It's your passion.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah, well, I do it kind of at home.
MAK
Is a particular genre?
Jelena Dokic
No, no, I just start dancing. And yeah, just being silly. I don't know. I think I'm quite, a lot of people say this, that I'm actually quite goofy and I like to take, I don't mind joking at my own expense and stuff.
I don't know whether people know that about me. Maybe comes through my social media because I'm quite honest and open and I do some of those dancing videos where I just don't care what it looks like.
That's what I want people to be comfortable with, who they are that is the reason why I do it and I don't care what my dancing looks like but I don't, yeah I don't know to be honest I'm an open book at this point.
MAK
I'm happy with the dancing and the minute we're finished I'm ringing the producers of Dancing with the Stars and I'm letting them know that you would be amazing. Imagine that as a platform?
She's shaking her head going no.
If you had one wish, only one wish what would that be?
Jelena Dokic
Oh that is, to be honest with you too hard because I would want there to be no, yeah I would want there to be equality and no abuse and no violence and that is a big one, and it's something that unfortunately, just with the way that human nature works, and it's really almost impossible to eradicate that.
But I would, yeah, I would just like there to be a world with no abuse and no violence, no disrespect, equality, and that everyone is nice to one another. And yeah, maybe this is one of those cliche answers and one of those dreams, but ultimately, yeah, I get sensitive to that, and especially to kids and the vulnerable kind of people and when injustice is done and abuse and violence. So that really makes me sad and I wish that there was a world where people don't have to experience that.
But yeah, that would be kind of my goal.
MAK
So I want to finish today with sharing a story with you. You're all about storytelling.
‘There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside of you’, straight from ‘Fearless’. So I want to tell you a story.
So my story is about the fact that I went through a period of my life which was very devastating and I suffered a great loss and I struggled exactly in the same way that you have, and during that time a really important figure in my life, it was actually my boss at the time, and he was a male he is a male Mario if you're listening.
I spoke to him because I was in a very high pressure job and while I was going through this period of time I was really fearful that my work was going to suffer a little bit like the story you tell about when you separated from Tim and you then had to go and commentate for the Australian Open and it was this terrible balance of dealing with this overwhelming grief, but having to turn up every day and be professional.
And I said to my boss, ‘oh you know, if I haven't really been at my best over the last 12 months, if I haven't, if you think that my performance hasn't been great, there's a reason for that and I'd like to tell you what it is’.
And I shared with him what I'd been going through very privately and secretly in that time and he paused and he said to me, ‘So, Marie-Anne’, you always know you're in trouble when someone uses my full name.
He said, ‘So, Marie-Anne, this is what you're like.’ He said, ‘you know the rose in the rose garden that when the winter sets in and it gets really, really cold, shuts down and all the leaves fall off and the blooms die. And then the gardener comes along and cuts off all those empty sticks and it literally is just one piece of wood sticking out of the ground, waiting for the cold to pass. And the depth of winter sets in and then spring comes and the fertiliser's added to the soil. And slowly it gets warmer and this one little ugly stick that has borne the winter and has survived all of the freezing cold starts to suddenly grow again and the leaves start to form and the buds start to grow and all of a sudden when summer comes this little stick starts to transform into to, and we all know this is what happens, the most beautiful rose bush in the rose garden’.
He said, ‘you know what? You, you are that stick. And one day you will be that rose.’
And what I wanted to share with you is, that you are that rose. That rose that is thriving, that rose that is your summer is almost here, I feel we're kind of like in the spring.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah I was going to say so are you and that's a very, the way that he described it Mario, is that you're unbreakable right.
MAK
One hundred per cent.
So you can be, you know, down, you can be out, but you're unbreakable and you're fearless, so I love that. I'm sorry you went through that but you know what, I talk about in ‘Fearless’ as well how with different people and companies and management companies that I work with speaking with Channel Nine with everything and how those people were there for me.
And always would ask how I’m going and that would always be the first thing and you know the head of Nine Sport and the head of tennis at Nine as well, it's always ‘how you're doing’ and always on the phone when we're doing, ‘how you're doing? Are you sure you're okay?’ Can I do anything, can we do anything?’ And that's why I talk about, not just when I do like these conversations even between like, not podcasts, just privately or even if I when I give talks, the power of that and someone being there for you and that was let's say your boss there for you. It can be your friend, it can be someone else but that's all you need you need that one person.
And I really have felt the power of that. I always thought, oh, you need a million people, you know? I always thought you have to have a family, you have to have friends, you have to have co-workers, you have to have this. And then I didn't have any of that, especially when you don't have a family, right? And feel like you don't. A lot of people even grow up without parents, but it's that one person that you need.
But the message here is that you, just to keep an eye out, keep your eyes open, you can be that one person for someone, and all they need to hear is something like that, right?
It took one minute for him to say that to you and to tell you that and it would have made all the difference, right for you to believe in yourself.
MAK
Thirty years later I sit here sharing that with you because we are those roses.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah absolutely.
MAK
That is our journey and roses in the rose garden don't compare themselves to other roses they just bloom.
Jelena Dokic
Yeah I love that, that's thriving. I love that.
MAK
And that is thriving.
Jelena Dokic
And I love roses and I love flowers so.
MAK
And that is you.
Jelena Dokic
That's too kind. It's you and it matches your outfit.
MAK
It certainly does.
It's been my greatest joy and a privilege to spend time with you.
Jelena Dokic
No, thank you. I want to thank you for bringing me to Perth actually, because we originally met last year and it was a kind of like a quick conversation and I would like to have you back.
And yeah, we made it happen, but it was because you made it happen. So, to fill a room with 550 people and have an amazing event and make it what it is, which was just amazing.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for bringing me to Perth. And Perth and WA in general is extremely important to me because I won Hopman Cup here. I always come here with so much joy. I love it here, even when we come back to commentate, and I always come here a few times a year. I love it.
I even have amazing sponsors and partners that I work with here like Kalis, which is just amazing and they've been incredible. So for you to bring me back to Perth for something so special thank you for that, for an amazing morning, our amazing chat. Again I hope yeah, I hope we do something and change something with it and again like I said the end of ‘Unbreakable’ and what even my motto is, is victim, survivor, thriver but if we change one person's life, yeah it's mission accomplished.
MAK
You're an absolute gift.
Jelena Dokic
Thank you.
MAK
If this conversation has raised any issues or if you feel like you need someone to chat with the number for Lifeline is 13 11 14.
To enjoy future episodes follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts and on our social media channels.
Remember, if you can choose to be anything choose to be kind.
This podcast was recorded on Wadjak Noongar land.
I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians and pay respect to their elders past present and future.
Notes:
Unbreakable was released in 2018 and was Jelena Dokic's first book.
Fearless was Jelena Dokic's second book and was released in 2023.